The Pope and Islam...

A bit of an old topic, but still relevent if you ask me. Comments from others in red:

I would like to start off by saying that I really cannot agree with anyone who does not think that the Pope intended to insult Muslims and Islam. As one academic said, the question should not be "Did the Pope do something offensive?" it is clear that he did, the question however should be "why and how could a man with so much power and influence be so careless especially at a time like this?" Just as, the question should not be "do Muslims have a right to be offended?" The answer is clearly "yes"...the real question should be, "are the methods and means that some people are using to express their feelings correct and in accordance with their Islamic beliefs?"

Now, in response to some comments:

Quote: I don't understand how the pope has offended moslems, he wasnt even talking to any moslems that I know of.

When you say that the beliefs brought by a Prophet beloved by nearly 3 billion people are "evil and inhumane" and when you say that he spread this religion "by the sword"...it's kind of hard to deny that he was being offensive. I'm not sure how you can say that he wasn't talking to any Muslims because when you attack the religion and its Prophet you are obviously attacking those who follow the religion and those who love the Prophet. This same reality would be true for any religion and any Prophet. Perhaps this does not seem offensive to many people because they really believe that these sentiments are true, however they are highly offensive to Muslims (and educated people who know the truth about Islam and Muslim people even though they are not Muslim) not only because they are negative sentiments, but because they are 100% false. When you consider that the Muslim Empire was the largest Empire known to man at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and that this vast empire which reached from Saudi Arabia through Spain and Africa was created in only 11 years by a group of people smaller than the average elementary school class size, and when you also take into account that it is a historical fact that less than 500 people lost their lives during the creation of this Empire, it becomes overwhelming clear that Islam and the Islamic Empire were in fact the most peaceful religious and social revolutions/expansions in the history of the world. Non-Muslim, American historians like Karen Armstrong and Michael Hart (among many others) have created entire books dedicated to this subject and have proven with historical and scientific fact that not only was Islam not "spread by the sword" but its incredibly peaceful expansion was nothing short of a miracle, fueled only by the overwhelming message of tolerance and compassion taught by the Prophet Muhammad. It should also be noted that of those approx. 500 who died during this massive expansion, all but a few of them were soldiers. The Prophet did not allow anyone to fight with anyone who was not a soldier actively warring against them, he also did not allow people to be unkind to prisoners of war, he did not allow people to ransack conquered villages or towns and steal the wealth and homes from its residents, and Islam was never, ever, ever forced on the residents of conquered lands. If we look at religious history from a historic standpoint, Muslims and Jews did not ever force their religion on others, the legacy of "believe or die" was actually created and implemented by Christians and carried on through out history since the conception of the religion on through the crusades, and up until modern colonial times.

Quote: Moslems go round saying that Jesus is just a prophet! That is a really offensive thing to say if there are catholics in the world. Do you see catholics jumping up and down. WELL DO YOU???I thankfully havnt heard of any muslims where I'm from carrying on like hooligans like the rest of them..

Ok, let's compare apples to apples here. Saying "according to our religious beliefs Jesus (peace be upon him) was a beloved Prophet and not God or the son of God" is not an insult, this would merely be labeled as a difference of opinion. I have never seen any Muslims "carrying on like hooligans" because Christians have said, "According to our religious beliefs we do not feel that Muhammad is a prophet of God" why? Because again, that is merely a difference of opinion. Insults and differences of opinion are not the same thing. You are comparing apples to oranges Joe. If someone took recent events going on in the Catholic Church, like for example the huge cover up and scandal about the overwhelming number of Catholic priests who are involved in homosexual relationships or who are molesting children and used it to attack Jesus, this would be different. For example, if the head of Al Azhar, one of the largest Mosques and Islamic universities in the world said "Jesus clearly spread his religion by homosexual sex and taught that it is good to molest children" this would be comparable to what the Pope said about the Prophet Muhammad, however, not only has the head of Al Azhar never said anything like that, even Osama Bin Laden has never said anything like that! What is happening is that people are feeling that it is open season to attack Islam and thus to attack the Prophet of Islam. If a few people who call themselves Muslims do something violent, then it is supposed to be ok to attack the Prophet of Islam and say that he was violent. Not only is this not ok, it's not true. Muslims are not asking for the right to attack the beliefs and sacred figures of other religions, they are merely asking for others to stop doing that to them (to us).

Furthermore, your comment about there not being any "muslim hooligans" in your area brings up another key point. Do you see American, European, Australian, Saudi, Emirati, etc...Muslims rioting or causing violence because of this? No, you don't...and why is that? Because again, it is a fact that these acts of rage are always happening in countries where poverty, joblessness, lack of education, and extreme civil and foreign politic strife are running rampant. As Aline said, these riots are more so the political and socio-economic cries of oppressed and exhausted people; they are not the collective or shared sentiments of the global Muslim community.

Quote: I see here that everyone is afraid to criticise the religon of islam.

From a fact based standpoint, can we really say this is true? In one year there have been numerous comics depicting the Prophet Muhammad as an evil, terroristic, mad man...the Pope has felt comfortable enough to say offensive things about the Prophet Muhammad, and there is not a single day that I do not turn on the news, pick up a newspaper, or read email forwards where lies and attacks are not being directed at Islam and Muslims. Key news sources are still saying that the Quran says that if you blow yourself up or kill innocent people you get 72 virgins in paradise. No where in the Quran or in any aspect of Islam is this written, taught, or believed...yet even CNN and ABC have reported this to be true, obviously...they are not "afraid to criticize Islam" if they are not even afraid to tell flat out lies about it!

Quote: Has any one heard of heavens gate, some religons are just plain wrong. And according to my state laws I am entittled to my opinion and it is high time all these people saying no no islam is nice though never quote the koran to back it up; but all the extremist quote it always. to people attempting to defend islam by attacking others opinion how about offering some evidence from your texts to actually refute some of this behaviour!!!!!!

I would be MORE than happy to quote the scriptures of Islam for you:

From the Quran:

Chapter 2, Verse 62 "Those who believe in the Qur'an, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians-- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

Chapter 2, Verse 286 "On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear."

Chapter 21, Verse 107 "We sent you (Oh Muhammad) as a mercy for all mankind."

Chapter 49, Verse 13 "Oh humankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes so that ye may know each other, not that ye may despise each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you."

Chapter 5, Verse 8 "Oh ye who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do."

Chapter 42, Verse 13 "The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah -that which we have sent by inspiration to you- and that which we enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein."

Chapter 5, Verse 82 "The nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say 'We are Christians' "

Chapter 2, Verse 136 "Say Ye: 'We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to all Prophets from their Lord; We make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah in adherence and submission."

Chapter 2, Verse 256 "Let there be no compulsion in religion, Truth stands out clear from Error"

Chapter 16, Verse 125 "Invite all to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for the Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His path, and who receive guidance."

Chapter 41, Verse 34 "Repel Evil with what is Good; then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate! And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint"

From the Prophet Muhammad:

"Allah is not merciful to those who are not merciful to others "

"The Merciful One (Allah) shows mercy to those who are themselves merciful to others. So show mercy to whatever is on earth, then He who is in heaven will show mercy to you "

"The strong man is not the one who is strong in wrestling, but the one who controls himself in anger "

"Make things easy and do not make them difficult, give good tidings and do not make people run away."

"You should be humble so that no one boasts over his neighbor nor anyone oppresses his neighbor. "

"Woe to him who tells lies to make people laugh -- Woe to him -- Woe to him "

"Visit the sick, feed the hungry and free the captives"

"The Muslim who meets with people and endures any harm they may do is better than he who does not mix with them and does not endure any harm they may do"

I could go on forever...

Quote: Theres been tons of reigons that has demanded killing and even child sacrafice, prostitution and even suicide to meet up with spaceships.

I would hardly call it just or reasonable to call the world's second largest religion, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion which preaches worshipping the same God as Christians and Jews and instills the same values, people, and stories as the original scriptures of the Christians and Jews comparable to people who demand child sacrifice, prostitution, or suicide. Interestingly enough, Islam brought a stop to female infanticide, prostitution, and suicide.

Quote: I think maybe muslims really are nice people and that their religon is turning them bad.

If this isn't an oxymoron than I don't know what is. Muslims are "nice" because of their religion...being "muslim" is not a race, it's a religion. To say that "muslims are nice but their religion is mean" is ridiculous. The kindness, hospitality, acceptance, and tolerance that Aline is speaking about come directly from the teachings of Islam.

Quote: In my country they urinated all over a cross and put it on display as art in art gallery. Now tell me which is more offensive.

This whole "they" thing is a red flag to intolerance. Let's all stop assigning group guilt and face reality. Who exactly are "they"? The "thems" and the "theys" are the you's and the me's...And if someone did urinate on some thing deemed sacred to another person this is very clearly not supported by Islam at all, this is the stupid act of an individual, not a global act supported by the religion of Islam and all Muslims. Let's make our scope a bit broader.

Quote: What we need is to love our fellow man as ourselves. which christians fall far short of. But at least it is written there.

The Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad clearly preach (and have applied) loving and respecting fellow man...for you to assume that only Christianity teaches such things does not show a lacking in Islam, it shows a lacking in your knowledge of Islam. And to close with another saying from the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):

"Allah does not look at your shapes or your colors but He looks at your hearts and your deeds. Creatures are the dependants of Allah and the closest among them to Allah are indeed the most useful to His dependants."